Interview with Shelley Rotner and Gwen Agna, Co-authors of “True You: A Gender Journey”
True You is a unique children’s book in that it isn’t just about children; it is by children. You have collected photographs of real kids and used their own words to talk about their stories, ideas, and hopes for the world. What does it mean to you to tell a story in this way? Why and how did you choose to tell it this way, and what role do you think this type of storytelling plays in the field of children’s literature?
From the start we wanted to use quotes from the kids, but it was our editor that had the idea to use speech bubbles. They were instrumental in creating the design. We think it helps put the kids in the spotlight and empowers them to be seen and heard and the same time.
Going forward, we used this same book design for out next book- FINDING HOME: Words from Kids Seeking Sanctuary. We think this a powerful way to help kids possibly identify, and also promote compassion while learning how someone else feels.
What photograph, story, or words from the children struck you particularly deeply?
It wasn’t any one photograph or any particular words.
The commonality was that they each spoke their truth. They felt safe to tell their story, to have their portrait taken and their words recorded. We sensed that they were brave, but also proud to be seen for their true self.
How did you collaborate to create True You? What was the process of photographing and interviewing children like - and then how did you choose what to include and how to include it?
We knew each other for many years before we started talking about collaborating. Gwen brought her years of experience as an elementary school principal, and I had my photo-journalistic approach to non-fiction picture books for kids. Gwen came up with subject from her work and the need for this book young children. She also had known most of the children and their families, so they trusted us to be in our book. Since the book is about inclusivity, we made sure to find all kinds of children and families reflecting the words on one of our spreads in the book: “We are kids! Girls, boys, neither, both, or just not sure.” I photographed and Gwen interviewed the kids.
Shelley - On your website, you talk about your experiences in kindergarten - or rather, your lack thereof! You constantly snuck into the first- grade classroom down the hall (and were more than ready to be a first grader in all ways!). Eventually, you were officially moved to first grade. What did it mean to you to be seen and heard, even as a young child, and your needs met in an educational setting? What does it mean to you now?
Wow! Nobody actually asked me this before or put it into the words “seen and heard” about me... I don’t know where that courage came to me, or how I did it. I only remember knowing that where “they” put me didn’t feel right so I acted out, spoke out, and defended how I felt. Maybe it was unusual back then? I was lucky that the principal at my elementary school listened and acted.
Shelley -You have authored and photographed a number of children’s books, most of which highlight identity, diversity, and intersectionality. What is your process with writing and photography - do the photographs come first and then the story follows, or the other way around? How do you find children to feature in your books?
At first, I felt like a photographer since that was my training and what I knew best. My graduate school was in elementary education and museum education. After being a classroom teacher for two years (K-2), I put the two together. The idea comes first and then the visuals as the words form in my mind. I find my children either through connections like for TRUE YOU or at my local food market. I also started photographing on my iPhone so that I could instantly show the kids their portrait. I made it interactive. They could tell me if they liked the photo or not— tell me yes or no, or to try something else. It made the process more fun for everyone and became an instant gift back to the family to have those photos.
Gwen - You have been an educator for many years. How does your classroom experience inform your writing? How did you use your experience as an educator in the process of writing and creating True You?
My experience as a teacher AND as a principal informed my writing in a myriad of ways – most importantly how essential picture books are to almost every aspect of education, no matter the age. In most recent years, the explosion of the kinds of picture books that a published – on every subject imaginable – gave me tools with which to address sensitive and important issues both for children and their grown-ups. I instituted monthly assemblies during which I read aloud a picture book, while displaying the pages on a large screen behind me. The 400 students, ages 5-11, sat rapt and eager to share their thoughts about the topic. Shelley referred to the fact that I knew many children who were exploring their identities at the school and they were eager to participate in the book project, ready to say their truth!
Gwen - Some of your passions as an educator are in the work of anti-bias education and social justice. What is a particularly meaningful moment from your career that led you down this path, told you it was the right path, or changed the way you viewed anti-bias education and/or social justice?
My early life began my journey on this path. I was born in 1952 in Burma to parents who were physicians and ready to save the world. They were committed to righting the wrongs whenever and wherever they could. We lived in Haiti as well and then ended up in Yellow Spring, Ohio, home of Antioch College, where social justice was in the air that we breathed as children. I carried on this work as an educator, believing in the power that we hold in supporting and guiding children. As far as a moment, it would be when our friend, Paul Graham, became the Rosa Parks of Yellow Springs by insisting that a local barber and hold-out in the civil rights movement, cut his hair. When the barber refused, saying he didn’t know how to cut black people’s hair, the demonstrations that ensued which my parents let me go to as an 8 year old child, made national news and cemented by beliefs in equality and the power of people standing up for what’s right. Thank you, dear Paul, for teaching us all. He passed away at 96 last month.